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Article in the news today:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/afp/20071017/tod-britain-employment-language-of...

What are peoples thoughts on this?

vinnie2k's picture

[quote="ian_england"]Article in the news today:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/afp/20071017/tod-britain-employment-language-of...

What are peoples thoughts on this?[/quote]
Swearing => venting => letting pressure off > feeling a bit better > more focused > more effective

I use it all the time with those dumb customers 8)

jhack's picture

Swearing is unprofessional and shows a lack of self control.

Kicking walls, screaming and throwing things might make you feel better, but they, too, are inappropriate.

Never.

John

akinsgre's picture

[quote="jhack"]Swearing is unprofessional and shows a lack of self control.

Kicking walls, screaming and throwing things might make you feel better, but they, too, are inappropriate.

Never.

John[/quote]

Doesn't seem that simple to me.

When my coworker's and I are in the "pit" and we're focused on what we're doing. Swearing is an "effective" means of communicating that we're having a tough time with something.

Now I wouldn't swear around everyone; but those I'm close to are OK with a little vulgar language.

bflynn's picture

It would depend on your culture. As a former sailor, I am no stranger to a workplace where swearing is not just commonplace, but happens in nearly every sentence sometimes.

However, in the modern business environment, swearing is offensive to many people. It can break down relationships when used in the wrong environment. Rule #1 - it is ALL about people means that effective managers should refrain from using foul language. But, you already knew that I hope.

Additionally, depending on the language, it could land you in trouble if you use racial or sexist slurs. And it can do that even if you don't recognize that your language is inappropriate or a slur (see Don Imus).

Best choice - avoid it.

Brian

jhack's picture

[quote="akinsgre"]Doesn't seem that simple to me. [/quote]
Perhaps not. I've worked on a commodity trading floor, and I'm no prude. When the "pit" started hiring women, people from other cultures, other backgrounds....it wasn't so simple anymore.

The professional thing to do is not swear. You don't have to worry about who is and is not within earshot, who might be offended by that particular word, and so forth.

There must be ways to express what you mean without cursing. You might even get a laugh out of your colleagues....

"Never" means no regrets.

John

wendii's picture

It worked for us. Our team has had a tough week and we've been laughing about this article since it came out.

Perhaps not what was intended but whatever gets the job done!

Wendii

CalKen's picture

I think that the item about it being culturally related (acceptance to swearing) is relevant. My wife is Irish and from where she is from it is acceptable to swear, mainly because a lot of the words which we view as "swear" words are not held in such negative regard. She tells me that she has to be very careful in America because things she would say there which are typical discussions are viewed here very negatively.

So, in keeping with that, based on my wife's experience I tend to err on safety. I was in the military and swearing was a part of everyday life. But, once I left and became part of the cogs of business I found that I had to "change" my culture to fit in. I do not swear or vent at work because of that change (although I do vent with some friends over a pint, friends who have no business relations with me).

Just my humble opinion....

US41's picture

Powerful people generally have very high emotional control. People with high emotional control tend to be granted power.

People who indulge themselves tend to lose power and not be granted positions of power. People in positions of power who indulge themselves tend to be removed from those positions.

bflynn's picture

[quote="US41"]Powerful people generally have very high emotional control. People with high emotional control tend to be granted power.

People who indulge themselves tend to lose power and not be granted positions of power. People in positions of power who indulge themselves tend to be removed from those positions.[/quote]

Nicely put. And it covers so much more than swearing.

Brian

vinnie2k's picture

[quote="US41"]Powerful people generally have very high emotional control. People with high emotional control tend to be granted power.

People who indulge themselves tend to lose power and not be granted positions of power. People in positions of power who indulge themselves tend to be removed from those positions.[/quote]
What a broad statement. Any theory, or maybe even examples, backing this?

And I assume you mean both in public and in the US?

US41's picture

How many times have you seen a world leader lose his temper? How many times have you seen one laugh so hard that tears ran down his face? How many presidents have walked up before the press and have acted depressed and mopey?

Think about presidents of companies, vice presidents, and people who have corner offices. Think of people like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. Have you ever seen any sort of huge emotional reaction out of any of them?

No - they control their emotions. They smile politely, they might allow themselves a chuckle, but they don't indulge.

Why do bankers dress more conservatively than anyone else and control their emotions so carefully? Because no one trusts millions and billions of dollars with someone who cannot control themselves.

Machiavelli wrote about it. Sun Tzu wrote about it. So have most of the great authors about power politics. In fact, read The 48 Laws of Power by Robert Greene, and the entire opening chapter is about emotional control.

People who cannot control their emotions and remain even-tempered chase power away from themselves like a man at a picnic waving off flies.

Lack of emotional control signals lack of self-control. Lack of self-control does not inspire trust. Relationships are based on effective communication, but highly volatile emotional reactions to communication cause people to stop communicating and shy away. You cannot hold power if people are hesitant to approach and inform you of things.

vinnie2k's picture

[quote="US41"]How many times have you seen a world leader lose his temper? How many times have you seen one laugh so hard that tears ran down his face? How many presidents have walked up before the press and have acted depressed and mopey?[/quote]
As I said: in public, not many, indeed.

[quote]
Think about presidents of companies, vice presidents, and people who have corner offices. Think of people like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. Have you ever seen any sort of huge emotional reaction out of any of them?
[/quote]
Huge, no. But emotions, definitely, yes.

Eltsine was emotional, and Russians seemed to like him.
Hitler definitely played the emotional card.
Jesus did too :-P

[quote]
No - they control their emotions. They smile politely, they might allow themselves a chuckle, but they don't indulge.
[/quote]
And *that* makes you trust them? Makes them look like machines to me.

[quote]
Why do bankers dress more conservatively than anyone else and control their emotions so carefully? Because no one trusts millions and billions of dollars with someone who cannot control themselves.
[/quote]
I've never worked in teh banking industry... but what does clothing have to do with your emotions? Or do you have to dress in a gray suit to mark the fact that you control your emotions?

[quote]
Machiavelli wrote about it. Sun Tzu wrote about it. So have most of the great authors about power politics. In fact, read The 48 Laws of Power by Robert Greene, and the entire opening chapter is about emotional control.

People who cannot control their emotions and remain even-tempered chase power away from themselves like a man at a picnic waving off flies.

Lack of emotional control signals lack of self-control. Lack of self-control does not inspire trust. Relationships are based on effective communication, but highly volatile emotional reactions to communication cause people to stop communicating and shy away. You cannot hold power if people are hesitant to approach and inform you of things.[/quote]

"Lack of self-control does not inspire trust": can you elaborate on that?
I actually like people who seem human like me, not even-tempered machines who bahve like Borgs in the face of fear, sarcasm, humor or anger.

vinnie2k's picture

[quote="US41"]Machiavelli wrote about it. Sun Tzu wrote about it. So have most of the great authors about power politics. In fact, read The 48 Laws of Power by Robert Greene, and the entire opening chapter is about emotional control.
[/quote]

From [url=http://www.amazon.com/48-Laws-Power-Robert-Greene/dp/0140280197]Amazon[/...
"Greene and Elffers have created an heir to Machiavelli's Prince, espousing principles such as, everyone wants more power; emotions, including love, are detrimental; deceit and manipulation are life's paramount tools. Anyone striving for psychological health will be put off at the start, but the authors counter, saying "honesty is indeed a power strategy," and "genuinely innocent people may still be playing for power." Amoral or immoral, this compendium aims to guide those who embrace power as a ruthless game, and will entertain the rest."

Thanks but no thanks. And Machiavelli isn't exactly on my moral compass either.

stephenbooth_uk's picture

[quote="vinnie2k"]Hitler definitely played the emotional card.[/quote]

From what I gather that's very much what it was, a card to be played. I watched a documentary about photography in the 3rd Reich (one of my hobbies is Photography), one of the things they talked about was how Hitler would have photographs taken of himself in various poses that he would then study (much like a performer or athlete might study video of themselves to improve their technique) to see what worked and then incorporate that into his speeches. He wasn't displaying to the German people (and the wider international audience) the emotion he felt but rather the physical manifestation of the emotion he wanted to evoke in them. He was not just speaking, he was performing.

If you watch most contemporary politicians they are doing exactly the same thing. Just usually with greater subtlety.

Emotional control is more than just subduing an emotion you don't want to reveal, it's also about presenting an emotion that you want to portray.

Stephen

eagerApprentice's picture

I heard this report on the Wall Street Journal podcast while I was walking home the other day and almost tripped and fell to the floor!

I should preface my thoughts with the disclaimer that I've not reached mid or high levels of management, so there might be some things I am not aware of... but either way...as soon as I hear someone swear in the workplace I lose massive amounts of respect for them - even if they are my boss.

It's not because I feel swearing is wrong in general or anything, but I feel that someone who swears at work has issues controlling their emotions - my boss is supposed to me a mentor or someone I can trust with my career - he can make mistakes in the workplace - but if he can't control his emotions, I won't trust him with my career.

When I was a consultant in NY a lot of the guys in the other department (not to be named) sitting next to me swore often, and it really had an impact on the IT group - it actually brought down moral a bit - we could "feel" the stress and bad times they were having when they swore out loud over and over again.

Finally, I know that while not everyone agrees with me, many do - my friends always complain about their analyst friend who can't stop swearing when he talks to them, and another friend is considering quiting his job because his boss won't stop swearing at him.

US41's picture

[quote="vinnie2k"]Thanks but no thanks. And Machiavelli isn't exactly on my moral compass either.[/quote]

The world is not all unicorns jumping over rainbows.

Books such as these are not written to provide a moral compass to the reader. They are written as amoral texts which educate the reader on what the rules of behavior are in the halls of power and what strategies those who seek power employ.

It's just a philosophical toolkit. You can use it for good, or you can use it for evil - just like one on ones, feedback, and coaching - which also are amoral and have no inherent ethical direction other than the intentions of the person employing them.

I found both books highly educational as to some of the tactics others employ. Greene's book in particular gives historical examples and short history lessons demonstrating each of the principles in action.

After reading these two books, you can see the concepts described being put into use everywhere.

I wouldn't take either as a morality lesson - more like familiarizing yourself with the rules of the royal court which are still in fashion amongst people who seek and hold power so that you can can perform and defend yourself.

Read it, then judge it.

US41's picture

[quote="vinnie2k"]"Lack of self-control does not inspire trust": can you elaborate on that? I actually like people who seem human like me, not even-tempered machines who behave like Borgs in the face of fear, sarcasm, humor or anger.[/quote]

There is a difference between having emotional control and suppressing all emotion and acting like a robot.

garyslinger's picture

[quote="US41"]The world is not all unicorns jumping over rainbows.[/quote]
I'm stealing that :)

G.

bflynn's picture

[quote="vinnie2k"][quote="US41"]
Why do bankers dress more conservatively than anyone else and control their emotions so carefully? Because no one trusts millions and billions of dollars with someone who cannot control themselves.
[/quote]
I've never worked in the banking industry... but what does clothing have to do with your emotions? Or do you have to dress in a gray suit to mark the fact that you control your emotions?
[/quote]

I hope I'm not wasting time here - do you truly not understand this or just disagree with it? I'm not able to tell.

Wild clothing and wild language imply a propensity to act first and check later, which increases risk. Conservative clothing, such as a grey or navy suit, imply a thoughtful, careful person. Careful people do the right thing, not the emotional thing. They avoid unwarranted risk.

Unwarranted risk in investments is bad. It means you lose money or don't make as much as you might. So bankers and other businessmen dress conservatively so they impress you with their conservative nature and you will trust them to not lose your money.

While a single unwarranted risk may not be realized, over time, statistics will catch up with you and one will wipe you out...this is essentially what is happening with the mortgage mess in the US today (and which is starting to happen in Europe). Companies made unnecessarily risky loans, which are now turning into realized risk...and they are losing money.

The same thing holds true for language. While it may be acceptable in some places to practice vulgar language, you are creating a risk to yourself and your career. Sooner or later, you will either control the risk or it will be realized in the form of you offending a superior by your language. Every possible event, no matter how unlikely, will eventually happen given enough time.

BTW, this is the exact reason you wear a navy suit to an interview. Besides being expected, it also conveys the image of a careful, thoughtful person who takes the right actions.

Brian

maura's picture

At the risk of taking this tangent even farther from the original point, I have to say I laughed out loud when I saw the banker example, since I am one (warning, what follows is long and only tenuously related to the original discussion).

I'm a VP in a corporate office, for one of the largest banks in the US (granted, vp's are a dime a dozen around here, so it doesn't mean as much as you think). But my main job is to ensure that half a billion dollars worth of internet-initiated monetary transactions work properly, every business day. My boss and his boss are wearing jeans today. Today I'm wearing khakis and a t-shirt. My ability to ensure that your money is safe would not increase if I was wearing a monkey suit. Not that that has anything to do with swearing at work or emotional control in general... which I guess is part of my point.

As to the question of emotional control - I can tell you that my first 6 months in this department had me reduced to tears more times than I'd like to admit, and I wasn't always able to keep it private. Luckily my boss chalked it up to growing pains - I kept working at the problems, made process improvements where I could, and things started working better...And eventually I got a promotion out of it. If my boss had instead judged me by my attire or by the fact that I occasionally ducked into the ladies room to cry during those first months, he and the company would have missed out on all the value that I brought to the table once I got on my feet.

To the original point, yes, when at work I prefer to err on the side of caution where language is concerned. But if some of that half a billion dollars we're responsible for gets processed wrong, you can bet somebody's going to let out an "Oh Sh$&", and around here nobody would bat an eye at that, given the context. Does it boost morale and foster team sprit? Probably not. But is the world going to come crashing down? Probably not.

I'm not saying that poor emotional control won't hold you back. Indeed, if a person wants to get ahead, they should be attending to anything about themselves others could see as a negative- and that could include attire, language, emotional control, a bad handshake, etc. But I think we should acknowledge that sometimes, when things get really bad, even great people might let some tears or swear words slip. Nobody’s perfect.

eagerApprentice's picture

[quote]when things get really bad, even great people might let some tears or swear words slip. Nobody’s perfect.[/quote]

I think your post really helps to clarify the general debate here Maura. Although the bankers I know do wear suits everyday and don't appreciate the folks who swear a lot, I can grant that every bank/organization is different - especially for the traders and portfolio managers, etc.

But the debate here seems to be frequency. For example, several years ago when I was a consultant and we were in a meeting with our clients (who had flown from the UK to Connecticut solely for that meeting), I was shocked to hear one of the most timid programmers at the meeting shout out a curse word right in the middle of a presentation. But in the end it was understandable - the date was September 11, 2001.

So of course everyone might have a strong... urge to swear at work from time to time, but this report that they are talking about in the thread suggested that consistent swearing was better in the workplace, and that is the thing I (generally speaking) just can't agree with.

maura's picture

EagerApprentice,

Thank you for bringing me back on task - I actually did read the original article a few days ago too, but this thread got so far afield that I lost the original focus of the article. :oops:

I agree - although it's probably appropriate to forgive the occasional outburst under dire circumstances, when the unprofessional language becomes so frequent it's considered normal, it creates a problem that should be dealt with.

bflynn's picture

[quote="maura"]I'm a VP in a corporate office, for one of the largest banks in the US (granted, vp's are a dime a dozen around here, so it doesn't mean as much as you think). But my main job is to ensure that half a billion dollars worth of internet-initiated monetary transactions work properly, every business day. My boss and his boss are wearing jeans today. Today I'm wearing khakis and a t-shirt. My ability to ensure that your money is safe would not increase if I was wearing a monkey suit. [/quote]

Would you dress this way in front of a customer that you wanted to impress? That was the example. BTW, I'm also wearing jeans, a tee shirt and tennis shoes today. But, I would not dream of doing that in front of a customer.

Even an occasional slip of the tongue can still sink you. I withheld a recommendation on a job hire one time for the sole reason that in the last question of our interview, part of his answer was "well, for lack of a better term, it was all f****d up". I'll be the first to admit that people are human and make mistakes. But, there are some times and some places that mistakes have consequences.

Your acceptance of mistakes does not mean the person sitting across the table has the same tolerance.

Brian

vinnie2k's picture

[quote="eagerApprentice"]but if he can't control his emotions, I won't trust him with my career.[/quote]
Why not?

vinnie2k's picture

[quote="maura"]At the risk of taking this tangent even farther from the original point, I have to say I laughed out loud when I saw the banker example, since I am one (warning, what follows is long and only tenuously related to the original discussion).

I'm a VP in a corporate office, for one of the largest banks in the US (granted, vp's are a dime a dozen around here, so it doesn't mean as much as you think). But my main job is to ensure that half a billion dollars worth of internet-initiated monetary transactions work properly, every business day. My boss and his boss are wearing jeans today. Today I'm wearing khakis and a t-shirt. My ability to ensure that your money is safe would not increase if I was wearing a monkey suit. Not that that has anything to do with swearing at work or emotional control in general... which I guess is part of my point.

As to the question of emotional control - I can tell you that my first 6 months in this department had me reduced to tears more times than I'd like to admit, and I wasn't always able to keep it private. Luckily my boss chalked it up to growing pains - I kept working at the problems, made process improvements where I could, and things started working better...And eventually I got a promotion out of it. If my boss had instead judged me by my attire or by the fact that I occasionally ducked into the ladies room to cry during those first months, he and the company would have missed out on all the value that I brought to the table once I got on my feet.

To the original point, yes, when at work I prefer to err on the side of caution where language is concerned. But if some of that half a billion dollars we're responsible for gets processed wrong, you can bet somebody's going to let out an "Oh Sh$&", and around here nobody would bat an eye at that, given the context. Does it boost morale and foster team sprit? Probably not. But is the world going to come crashing down? Probably not.

I'm not saying that poor emotional control won't hold you back. Indeed, if a person wants to get ahead, they should be attending to anything about themselves others could see as a negative- and that could include attire, language, emotional control, a bad handshake, etc. But I think we should acknowledge that sometimes, when things get really bad, even great people might let some tears or swear words slip. Nobody’s perfect.[/quote]
A-men.

Thank you.

vinnie2k's picture

[quote="bflynn"][quote="vinnie2k"][quote="US41"]
Why do bankers dress more conservatively than anyone else and control their emotions so carefully? Because no one trusts millions and billions of dollars with someone who cannot control themselves.
[/quote]
I've never worked in the banking industry... but what does clothing have to do with your emotions? Or do you have to dress in a gray suit to mark the fact that you control your emotions?
[/quote]

I hope I'm not wasting time here - do you truly not understand this or just disagree with it? I'm not able to tell.
[/quote]
It's called sarcasm.

And no, you're not wasting your time, I am really completely missing your (and US41's) point.

[quote]
[b]Wild clothing and wild language imply a propensity to act first and check later, which increases risk.[/b]
[/quote]
Why do you automatically link wild clothing/language with risk? Why do you link a different self-control with risk? Why is control the father of all good things in a corporation? That is the crux of the argument and I can't understand it.

[quote]
Conservative clothing, such as a grey or navy suit, imply a thoughtful, careful person.
[/quote]
How about boring, or lacking personality, or lacking imagination?
Why wouldn't these adjectives also apply?

[quote]
Careful people do the right thing, not the emotional thing. They avoid unwarranted risk.

Unwarranted risk in investments is bad. It means you lose money or don't make as much as you might. So bankers and other businessmen dress conservatively so they impress you with their conservative nature and you will trust them to not lose your money.

While a single unwarranted risk may not be realized, over time, statistics will catch up with you and one will wipe you out...this is essentially what is happening with the mortgage mess in the US today (and which is starting to happen in Europe). Companies made unnecessarily risky loans, which are now turning into realized risk...and they are losing money.
[/quote]
... because they were wearing pink shirts or swearing in the workplace? I am being facetious but I am really trying to prove to you that swearing or dressing non-conservatively has nothing to do with work efficiency. IMHO, obviously.

[quote]
The same thing holds true for language. While it may be acceptable in some places to practice vulgar language, you are creating a risk to yourself and your career.
[/quote]
Why? Because people are so uptight that they can't have a chuckle and let it go?

[quote]Sooner or later, you will either control the risk or it will be realized in the form of you offending a superior by your language. Every possible event, no matter how unlikely, will eventually happen given enough time.
[/quote]
I would obviously behave a tiny bit differently depending on who I am facing. I might like colors but I'm not completely hopeless.

[quote]
BTW, this is the exact reason you wear a navy suit to an interview. Besides being expected, it also conveys the image of a careful, thoughtful person who takes the right actions.

Brian[/quote]
Wore some nice brown pants with light blue shirts, matching blue/yellow tie and brown shoes.

My HR counterpart had an orange vest (I am not kidding you).
Does that mean he is a risk to his company? Should I not work for them because of that?

Come on.

But back to the main argument:
Why is control the father of all good things in a corporation?

bflynn's picture

[quote="vinnie2k"]Why is control the father of all good things in a corporation?[/quote]

Briefly,

Risk is a basic concept in business. If you've never had classes that taught it, it may be a foreign concept to you. Think of risk as statistical variation.

The semi-humorous reason...control is good because more control equals lower risk. Lower risk equals an ability to predict and hit financial targets, thus not getting fired and messing with my addiction to food, clothing and shelter.

Some concrete examples -

Most important - in the world of corporations, risk talks about how much your stock price varies, which affects the value of that stock price. It can also affect a bond rating and therefore the rate a corporation has to pay on bonds, resulting in higher interest payments for higher risk. In both cases, lower variation(risk) = higher value. And given that both have a direct impact on the value provided to shareholders, managers should care a great deal about risk.

In the six sigma world, it tells you to carry 3 times the standard deviation if you want to have a 1% chance of a stock out. Reduce the variation and you can claim back resources tied up in stock.

In the financial world, it implies the likelihood of making a profit or a loss and tells you how diverse your investment needs to be to reach a certain level of performance.

I'm not sure I can go into more detail without bringing in a lot more information.

The big one is that a higher variation in revenue causes a higher cost of equity. The time value of money translates that into a lower valued revenue stream. That lower value revenue stream translates directly to a lower corporate value, lower value to shareholders. Reducing the variation (risk) equates to a higher value to shareholders.

Brian

bflynn's picture

[quote="vinnie2k"][quote]
BTW, this is the exact reason you wear a navy suit to an interview. Besides being expected, it also conveys the image of a careful, thoughtful person who takes the right actions.[/quote]

Wore some nice brown pants with light blue shirts, matching blue/yellow tie and brown shoes.

My HR counterpart had an orange vest (I am not kidding you).
Does that mean he is a risk to his company? Should I not work for them because of that?
[/quote]

I take it that you weren't interviewing at a corporate job - something industrial or construction oriented?

Brian

vinnie2k's picture

[quote="bflynn"][quote="vinnie2k"][quote]
BTW, this is the exact reason you wear a navy suit to an interview. Besides being expected, it also conveys the image of a careful, thoughtful person who takes the right actions.[/quote]

Wore some nice brown pants with light blue shirts, matching blue/yellow tie and brown shoes.

My HR counterpart had an orange vest (I am not kidding you).
Does that mean he is a risk to his company? Should I not work for them because of that?
[/quote]

I take it that you weren't interviewing at a corporate job - something industrial or construction oriented?

Brian[/quote]
He was the Corporate Executive recruiter.
It's a luxury company in the $4bn/year, 10000 people.

NOT American :-)

US41's picture

[quote="maura"]my main job is to ensure that half a billion dollars worth of internet-initiated monetary transactions work properly, every business day. [/quote]

I should pay more attention to details - it will be my downfall. When I wrote "banker", I was thinking of someone that meets a businessman downstairs and escorts them upstairs to discuss his rather large regular deposits that are highly prized.

I've never heard a swear word in a bank. I've never seen anyone dressed that casually in a bank, either, unless they were a teller or a customer. But around here, tellers don't dress that casually. If I were to speak to someone about depositing a million dollars, I doubt jeans, swear words, and overt crying would instill confidence in me as to the safety of my money, and I doubt I would ever see that at a bank, law firm, or anywhere else that caters to the wealthy who assume huge risk with every decision they make.

jhack's picture

This should not be an issue.

Don't swear.

John

lazerus's picture

I have a direct report who swears a lot, dresses in baseball cap/T-shirt every day, is a HIGH D, is very creative and imaginative, but takes (unauthorized) risks which cost the company THOUSANDS of dollars that we simply don't have. Perhaps someone out there would like to hire my freethinking innovator so I don't go home and swear at my wife and kids? :cry:
:wink:

His appearance and speech are a reflection of his underlying personality. Not a success formula. Swear all you want, but don't expect me to put you in front of my clients.

I'm with JHack- this is a non-issue.

bflynn's picture

[quote="lazerus"]I have a direct report who swears a lot, dresses in baseball cap/T-shirt every day, is a HIGH D, is very creative and imaginative, but takes (unauthorized) risks which cost the company THOUSANDS of dollars that we simply don't have. Perhaps someone out there would like to hire my freethinking innovator so I don't go home and swear at my wife and kids? :cry:
:wink:

His appearance and speech are a reflection of his underlying personality. Not a success formula. Swear all you want, but don't expect me to put you in front of my clients.

I'm with JHack- this is a non-issue.[/quote]

And he still works for you? He must deliver some monster results...

US41's picture

[quote="jhack"]This should not be an issue.

Don't swear. [/quote]

I can understand presenting emotional control as being important. A passionate, angry response with swear words or yelling at someone is unacceptable. The private, non-directed use of some four-lettered words is probably not a big deal.

That's why I focused on emotional control rather than the use of curse words. The more formal the meeting, the less likely swearing is appropriate.

asteriskrntt1's picture

I am teaching college part time right now as I struggle through my job search. Students think nothing of dropping F bombs and any other swear word or derogatory comment that comes outta their unfiltered little minds.

Get ready for the wave. It is coming to offices near you soon. Thank you, Rap and Hip Hop and Music Videos and professional athletes that can't string a sentence together....

And John is right. No swearing. Not in my classroom, not in my staff room, not in my meeting. If you drop your guard and drop swear bombs in the inner circles, you can bet you will be dropping them in front of clients.... or should I say, soon to be ex-clients

jhack's picture

[quote="asteriskrntt1"]Thank you, Rap and Hip Hop and Music Videos and [/quote]

and all this time I thought it was Socrates corrupting the youth of Athens. I mean, Abelard corrupting the youth of Paris. No, it was the Charleston and those flappers. Or was it Elvis? Those moptops from Liverpool?

C'est le meme chose....

John

vinnie2k's picture

I am dropping the conversation.
Thanks to those who contributed.

ckondek's picture

I'm with the sometimes-good, sometimes-bad camp. There are times when it's appropriate.

angelicdoctor's picture

I dislike hearing it coming from my peers and especially my young boss.  I suffer it not from my directs and provide effective feedback when I do hear it from them.  I lose respect for them and for the parents who raised them.  I even more especially despise it when I hear it coming from the lips of the vice presidents of the organization who are supposed to be pillars and models of professionalism in the workplace.

 

Grow up.  Be professional.  The English language is vast.  Find alternative, more intelligent ways to express yourself.

 

My two worthless pennies.