LinkedIn For Managers - Part 1

 "..not timeless enough.."

 "..not timeless enough.."  gave me a chuckle.  You guys are great, and you're obviously very committed to what you do.  And you do great stuff.  But do you *really* think  in terms of "timelessness"??  I've been with you guys since almost the very start, and this remark highlights my only real criticism: sometimes you take yourself a little bit too seriously, and display a bit too much regard for your own expertise.

When I interview consultants for potential engagements, I'm attuned to seeing if they confuse their true expertise (based on study and experience) with their opinions. Maybe it's an unfair comparison, because I've listened to hours and hours and hours of you guys - but I think that sometimes you present opinion with the same weight as if it's expertise.

That stated, I have nothing but best wishes for your continued success!

Ken, Who? Us? Strong

Ken,

Who? Us? Strong opinions??? ;-)

Seriously, thanks for sharing your thoughts with us ... much appreciated!

Best Regards,
Mike

Is there a difference?

Of course there are formal definitions, but is an educated opinion really different than expertise? 

In the case of MT, I think they are pretty clear that their recommendations are based off of what they have seen work in practice.  Opinions based on experience is certainly better than opinions based on theory, so the MT advice has a lot of weight for me.

What I find interesting is the debates you can get into with others who are not familiar with the body of work at Manager Tools. 

I have argued with my boss about the value of O3s (won that one), argued with a HR VP on how to do layoffs compassionately (lost that one), and debated with several recruiters on the proper layout of a resume (lost those too).  In those (and others), I really wanted to play the "Mark said so" card, but alas, I could not.  Trying to explain to the HR VP why he was wrong and I was right because "I listened to this podcast..." was particularly painful.

So I draw two things from this discussion.  One, I need to stop picking arguments I can not win!  And second, Manager Tools needs to become a industry standard and recognizably name for everyone in business (Give it another 2-3 years!).  When that happens, I will get to play the "Mark Said" card to great effect!

my .02,

Mike

 ps, I think these guys just take Management really seriously (which I love), the rest I chalk up to high D.  Of course, being high D also, I may have been told that I take myself too seriously once or twice (this week)....

Big believer in Manager Tools...but

I've really been a big believer in the MT principles and thoughts - with my commute, I've ended up listening to 4-8 hours of podcasts each week.  I think it's an entertaining cast...but what pushes me over the edge is the fact that they are willing to make strong statements about specific actions in order to implement these principles.  I ignore the management books that tell me "communication is important to being a manager...".  MT tell me specifically how to implement change.

Now, my beef...  MT is supposed to set the standard and provide the example.  Mark - you tell everyone that they should provide a professional head shot if you are going to give any picture at all.  Not exactly what I found on LinkedIn - that's a shot that is good for a forum, but not for a online resume equivalent.  The podcast seems to indicate that the two of you don't care that much because you don't ever want to leave MT.  I don't think you would be ok with someone giving you that answer as to why they don't have a professional profile.

As the previous poster alluded to, I'd like to live in a world that merely telling someone that you were suggesting a MT process would give credence to change.  I'm telling as many of my colleagues about it as possible, and I think LinkedIn is a great way to advertise it.  I can imagine..."Tim - who's this Mark that you're recommending.  You really don't recommend many people."  "Why - that's the Manager Tools guy.  Just ignore his profile, because it directly goes against what he's preaching in his podcast about LinkedIn"

I'm posting because MT is important to me and feel like the more who get involved will create a better working environment for me.  Good luck...and thanks for many hours of entertainment on the long commute.

I don't want to live in a

I don't want to live in a world where saying "Mark says so" is enough.  The ideas and techniques should stand on their own.  

Taking management seriously is a problem?  It's great that MT strives for timelessness rather than faddishness.  "When you reach for the stars, you may not quite get one, but you won't come up with a handful of mud either." - Leo Burnett.

MT recommendations are, for the most part, "common denominator" recommendations.  They are intended to cover the first 80%.  You don't have to do 1:1's exactly their way (and many very successful managers have their own 1:1 formats).  BUT if you're not doing them, and you don't how to start, their guidance will work.  You will be much, much more effective.  

Same with LinkedIn profiles.  If you're a middle manager in a large company, their advice will work.  If you're bold, you can break their "rules."  Mark co-owns his firm, and that firm has its own branding strategy.  It's not hypocritical for him to diverge from advice which is generic for most managers.  

John Hack

Excellent point, John!

 "MT recommendations are, for the most part, "common denominator" recommendations.  They are intended to cover the first 80%. "

Well put, John.  Hats off to you!

Thanks Folks...

Folks, as always thanks for your comments.  My thoughts, insofar as both of the comments here go to my state of mind:

1.  Yes, we do "really" think in terms of 'timelessness.'  We believe it's a core part of our value.  We don't think that means we take ourselves too seriously - but we do take our obligation to our listeners QUITE seriously. 

Timelessness may not be as important as actionable in our values regarding our recommendations...but I think about it every time I write a cast.  Writing casts is hard work, based on my experience and my reading of others' shows supporting material.  We have so much to share, it seems silly to me to take the time to write a show that won't be valuable 10 years from now.  We have THOUSANDS of casts yet to publish - just a thousand would take us 20 years.  I'm 50 years old - we're not going to make it if we have to go back and delete casts.  Not all of our casts will stand the test of time.  But thinking about timelessness GREATLY reduces the risk of any of them not making it.

I'm surprised - though I ought not to be - with the critique of opinion clothed as expertise.  Management is a field that doesn't have a clear standard of expertise.  On the other hand, when clients pay us tens of thousands of dollars for one day of work, that's an accepted criterion of expertise.  And getting that for free..well, we think that's a good deal.

If one of my faults is taking this seriously to the point where some think I go to far, well, okay.  It may just be a question of where the line is between passion and obsession.  My family thinks I'm obsessed, that's for sure.

Sometime tonight, somewhere in the world, someone is listening to us for the first time.  Mike and I don't know what cast they're listening to, or how they found us. [The common path, frustratingly, is they stumble upon us. Thank you for the recommendations you're making - we appreciate them.]  This person is struggling at work, and they have probably read a book or two without satisfaction.  They listen to one show, maybe.  They ask themselves a simple question: does this help me with my problem right now?  When I think of him or her...I get VERY serious about this work.  What if we don't help them?  What if they feel they wasted their time?

What if there were five HUNDRED people doing that every night?

When I went to work at Procter years ago, two things stuck out in others' comments about the firm.  The first was, funnily enough, that it was, "the West Point of Corporate America."  Can't go wrong there ;-)  And the other was that while other firms thought about the next quarter, "Procter thinks in decades."  That sounded good to me, having the courage to think long term.  So, that's what we do.

The song I often write to is Rhapsody In Blue.  It reminds me of that United Airlines commercial where the company has lost a customer and the boss decides everyone is going to fly to reconnect with old customers.  We don't record podcasts for the internet - we make recommendations for real people.  What scares me is having someone use our guidance and getting fired for it. When someone else takes a risk doing a new thing based on a recommendation from us, whom they've never met...as we like to say, it's not trivial.

And, yes, I can see where some would think I've sounded arrogant.  (Hey!  Maybe it's the song - it's pretty grandiose at moments.)  It's one of my weaknesses.  I suspect long time listeners would say it's a lot better than it used to be. If that's a problem if you're thinking about consultants, well, by all means don't hire us.  More time for that guy somewhere out there. 

2.  Yes, my picture isn't in the style of our recommendations.  There are a couple of reasons for this which John mentioned.  There certainly is part of it that at this point, I have less of a "career" - a progression of roles in a working life - than the vast majority of our listeners. 

It really wasn't a branding strategy - we're terrible at marketing.  It's me - in short pants, for heaven's sake, a guy who has to wear nice suits often at work! - at the 8th hole at Spanish Bay out at Pebble Beach.  Pebble is my favorite place in the whole world, and I looked happy.

Further, it was the picture I used on the forums.  I used it THERE because I thought a head shot would be a little too formal, and it would be MUCH harder to pick out in a quick scan down through comments.  The picture I chose was distinctive.   And it occurred to me that having the same one on LinkedIn would be an easy connection for our members.

And, at the time, LinkedIn was smaller and the picture thing wasn't clear.  And, I would have had to go GET a head shot.  Since I don't even have time to pick up my dry cleaning anymore, that's the kind of thing that didn't get done.

It might be better for me to have a head shot. I promise to consider it.  I thought about changing it for the cast, and then thought maybe some folks would think we were just cleaning up to look good.  Plus, the cast does say there's some gray area around pictures.

And, we often say that our recommendations aren't necessarily based on our OWN experiences, but rather what we know to work and have tested.  We really do eat our own dog food when it comes to this stuff - ask Wendii about our O3s.  Sometimes we're not perfect, too.

Another admission - I don't have a resume.  I used to - until a couple of years ago.  I do have a picture of Neil Armstrong in my office, whom I have suggested before is one of the few people on the planet who doesn't need one.  The picture reminds me that if you're really good at something, you don't need one....but it's REALLY REALLY hard to be really good at something. You have to be... obsessed.   I'll never be THAT good, but you know what they say about reaching for the stars.  (Thanks again, John)

It's a privilege to serve you all.

Mark

DiMaggio

Mark said:  "Sometime tonight, somewhere in the world, someone is listening to us for the first time."

Shades of DiMaggio...

Too bad, Mark, you gotta burn calories saying stuff you've said before.  Or stuff people should be smart enough to figure out for themselves.  Just too damn bad.

You could have charged me, these past years, for the blizzard of tiny, beautiful things you've given me -- changed my life, frankly.  Still changing my life -- and maybe I wouldn't have racked up the debt I owe you.  And maybe I would appreciate you more.

And maybe I should tell you that more often.  A balance for, if not a muting of, the noise.

Best,

Paul Schweer

I'd rather disagree with something that you've said...

than listen to (or read) another "expert" that doesn't say anything substantial enough to disagree with.  I agree with (and learn from) 95% of what you guys say - but if you didn't have opinions you wouldn't have an audience.

Getting back to LinkedIn, I

Getting back to LinkedIn, I just started a new job that LinkedIn helped me get.

My job search strategy using LinkedIn goes like this:

1. Look for positions in my field and geographical area on job sites like Monster, Dice etc and note the company name hiring for the position.

2. Go to LinkedIn and search on that company to find people in my network that are currently working there.

3. Send an email to the person I most thought would be willing to help get my resume and recommendation to the hiring manager.

This method got me many interviews and eventually landed me my current position.

My prediction...

I predict that within a year Facebook will have a place in your "heart" for professional promotion.

I have a personal and professional Facebook site. The professional site was created out of necessity due to the Friend requests I was receiving from colleagues and business contacts. I have set it up with an RSS feed to automagically publish timely news in my industry. I will occasionally add commentary on topics for which I can add value which I feed from LinkedIn Updates to Twitter to my professional Facebook page... a low maintenance solution after it is setup.

And, perhaps I am not yet considered a thought leader in my industry but will never be if I don't start now.

Chris R. Rowland

LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/crrowland
Twitter: http://twitter.com/ky0kut3i
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/chris.r.rowland