Meal Etiquette (Part 2 of 2)

If you are in SD, I like Sbicca better

If you are in SD, I like Sbicca better than Jakes. Jakes is good. Mark/Mike, tell me if you guys are in SD, I will take you guys out.

Gee thanks! You dis my recommendation

Gee thanks! You dis my recommendation and then ask to take us out! LOL!!!

Happy to take you up on that when we're out there.

Mark

I never got a response to this

I never got a response to this question:

Great podcast and subject. Here is a question that I’m never sure of: when to eat when your meal is served but not others? This is particauly tricky when there are more than 4 people. For example, if 6 out 10 of us are served and there appears to be a “lag time” before the others are served, do I wait? Does it matter if I am served something hot (i.e. soup or steak) and time is of the essance (to eat)? Is there any situation where you would eat before others or is the rule to wait?

Gee - 48 hours is suddenly "never"! ;-)

Gee - 48 hours is suddenly "never"! ;-) Unfortunately, your answer was posted on the discussion forums for this topic.

The appropriate answer is to wait, unless you receive a polite reprieve from those who have not been served. I generally find that time is NOT of the essence, however, as restaurants are usually quite good about having not more than a 1-2 minute delay in serving a second batch of entrees.

I would only eat if given such grace by my dinner partners.

It's a privilege to serve you.

Mark

I would add to your suggestion one

I would add to your suggestion one point especially for international listeners:
when you are guesting be sure to have available an english speaking waiter or an english version of the menu or be ready to translate for your guests. The last for me it is the worse choice prolonging and in some cases "killing" the nice atmospehre especially when you have more than 4 participants.
Last point from my side: in addition to ribs (when you are in US) never order "spaghetti" (when you are in Italy or italian restaurant) unless you are a very expert "twister"....
I am just organizing a business meal for more than 20 people: as usual just in time !!
Thanks
Bilbo

Bilbo- I find the English menu

Bilbo-

I find the English menu version cooment fascinating! I would never DREAM of expecting a menu in my language in your country. I would be excited to learn new words, to say nothing of hopefully having studied some basic menu items before visiting. Further, I would simply ask a native for recommendations, and enjoy the exchange of words and translations, and be completely fine with simply ordering based on a recommendation.
There is another point here also...I worry that an American reading this (because we are often stupid) might assume that a European host w/o an English menu had erred, and feel slighted...which I would laugh out loud at! (I have called my etiquette consulting expert for some input here...interesting!)

Mark

Mark, Unfortunately not everyone

Mark,

Unfortunately not everyone understands what it means to be a guest in another person's country and culture. The "ugly american" reputation is not unearned in my experience. There are those who expect their very presence to transform the entire world into an English-speaking, Western society.

As a guest this should not be the expectation however as a host, depending on how well you know your guests, you cannot assume the people visiting are open to exploring new culture, language, customs and cuisine. Offering the comfort of a translated menu or waiter who speaks the guest's language can alleviate some of the tension and allow you to move forward with the relationship.

Ah well. One simply rededicates

Ah well. One simply rededicates oneself to changing the world one relationship at a time.

Mark

Business Meal

Business Meal Etiquette...

...

Mark, Great podcast. There is

Mark,

Great podcast. There is however one point that I think is important, but was not discussed - getting to know any dietary preferences of your guests. Please don't take your vegetarian guest to a steak house, unless you want them to starve them.

Ganesh

Ganesh- Well, certainly one wishes

Ganesh-

Well, certainly one wishes to be sensitive, but I would say it slightly differently. It's not a requirement to know your guest's preferences. If you do that, you're almost in the business of taking orders in advance.

Virtually any restaurant at which one might consider hosting a guest will be able to accomodate any preferences. Even hotels have pre-preprared (ready on short notice) meals to meet unique eating prefernces.

Now, would I choose a steakhouse first? NO. I would choose an upscale restaurant with many choices. THAT goes to your issue as well, but avoids you "taking orders".

Mark

Hey You guys are great! There's a

Hey You guys are great! There's a question at the end....

I finished listening to both podcasts just as I was organising an interview with the CEO of a potential employer visitng Australia for the first time.

Dinner overlooking the Sydney Opera House and Sydney Harbour is tomorrow night, (I was asked to select the restaurant, and took your advice by asking my sister who gets out for dinner in Sydney fairly often). I'm stopping in at the restuarant a few hours before we arrive.

One question for a Friday night dinner interview. What should I wear? As a consulting engineer it is rare for me to wear a tie at work. Is dinner more formal regardless? Which is worse, being overdressed on a Friday night, or underdressed? I'm travelling for 3 hours to Sydney from work, and the restuarant is pretty fancy, but not super upscale. Any thoughts?

I am afraid that your advice concerning

I am afraid that your advice concerning drinking limits do not apply to Poland and countries east of Poland. One bottle of wine for dinner? One bottle of vodka per person would be more appropriate. And you have to practice at least weekly to be able to communicate effectively after drinking 0.75 liter of 40% alcohol.

UrbanMike- Wearn a suit. If you

UrbanMike-

Wearn a suit. If you have to, arrive enough in advacne to change somewhere nearby. Dinner IS different, and interiviews DEFINITELY are different.

Underdressed is the kiss of death.

Mark

TesTeq- No comment beyond I love

TesTeq-

No comment beyond I love competing with people whose senses are dulled and reasoning skills reduced. ;-)

Mark

Mike and Mark, I would like your

Mike and Mark,

I would like your views on a few issue.

1. Bosses handing the check to junior employees for them to write off since the manager has expense approval and does not need to show it to their manager.

2. Picking up the check with the excuse that the company will pay for it.

3. What are the proper ways to handle the check when Government employees and some company policies don't allow gifts.

Thanks.

Congratulations on the switch to full time Manager Tools.

I was in a rather funny situation in

I was in a rather funny situation in the late 70's where my boss and I went out to dinner with 6 or 8 IBMers (we were customers). As things worked out the waiter took my drink order first and I ordered a soft drink and every IBMer then ordered a soft drink and last came my boss who ordered a 'real' drink. All of the IBMers changed their drink order at that point. I was surprised and asked my boss after dinner what happened and was told that the IBMers could have a drink but only if the customer did. The next day at the IBM plant I found out that I had put a damper on the evening when I ordered but that things changed when my boss ordered. After that when I would go out with IBMers I would tell them it was ok to order a 'real' drink even though I wasn't and that seemed to make them happy.

Lionel- Classic! And that story

Lionel-

Classic!

And that story has as much to do with inflexible rules, it seems, as it does with meal etiquette.

Thanks for sharing.

Mark

Here is a question that may not be easy

Here is a question that may not be easy to answer - how do you deal with someone who desires to say grace before a meal. Many times I've done it quietly when in a group by slightly bowing my head, closing my eyes and silently saying grace. Other times it is difficult to do so as everyone is engrossed in conversation. I've been out with some who like to do it is a more public (e.g. vocal) way and/or invite everyone to join in. When it is just two it can be real awkward.

My opinion is to do it so it does not distract and/or make others feel uncomfortable and if that can't be done I know that I can say a prayer later.

Comments?

Saying grace is a deeply personal

Saying grace is a deeply personal moment and each person's choice. It would be inappropriate - both from a social and from a business perspective - to ask others to join you. While most businesses of any repute are today quite respectful of any religious choices, business is also generally agnostic...particularly when hosting a meal.

Perhaps the only thing worse than asking others to say grace is for someone to be disrespectful or derisive when someone privately communicates with their God.

Mark

I'm new to the Manager Tools Podcast

I'm new to the Manager Tools Podcast and am just listening to some of the older podcasts, including this one. By the way, GREAT service guys!

Anyway, just wanted to let you know that in Europe (I'm in French Switzerland), it's quite common to have wine at meals and even in business meetings. Obviously in the US this probably would not be the case as frequently, but the point is that one has to take into the account the local customs and cultures when speaking about etiquett.

Therefore, it would probably be a good idea to ask for advice on these things when traveling to international locations. A local manager, or perhaps a hotel concierge might be good resources.

Hi Mike & Mark, ANISE from Brisbane

Hi Mike & Mark,

ANISE from Brisbane Australia again.

I have listed to both the meal etiquette pod casts, and it has changed the way I deal with my regular guests. I am encouraging them to take the seat that looks over the balcony, with the view. It makes a lot of sense, I had just never formalised it before.

Here in Australia, one of the business etiquettes rules that I have read several time that seems to be unique to us, is that if you invite someone out for a business dinner (not breakfast or lunch) he will frequently bring his wife with him.

Perhaps because we are a bit more laid back here.

This seems to surprise foreigners who have this image of the ocker male & downtrodden female, whereas in fact, we the females, are very much respected by our menfolk :)

ANISE

THANK YOU!! Still catching up on the

THANK YOU!! Still catching up on the past podcasts, but I skipped ahead to this one as I had a breakfast meeting this morning. Lots of useful info and we actually ended up discussing at breakfast. I am sending a link to my client as they'd like to educate some of their people as well. Passing it on - my favorite part. ;)

mamil, Thank YOU ... I can't think

mamil,

Thank YOU ... I can't think of a higher compliment than passing us on to one of your clients!

best regards,
Mike

Meal Etiquette in Africa. I finished

Meal Etiquette in Africa.
I finished listening to your cast. Here is a perspective I'd like to share with you. First I can deduce from that cast that you the guest, junior person or younger guy be deferential to the host, senior or elder.

First in my part of the world, there are certain meals that are taboo to eat with anything but your fingers. An sometimes, your boss takes you out to this special joint that makes his favourite traditional meal. To order rice or anything other than traditional is seen as an insult to him and his culture and of course you eat with your fingers.

Needless to say, ABSOLUTE SILENCE WHILE EATING .... or at least lengthy pauses. Thanks for the great show .... I share it any chance I get. I even made a CD of shows and gave my boss .... I hope he listens to it.