Coaching Revisited - Part 1

Great podcast. I'm glad to hear I

Great podcast. I'm glad to hear I wasn't the only one that had a double take when Coaching first hit the Podcast. My biggest adjustment is basically how to incorporate the coaching model alongside the feedback and one-on-one process. Keep up the good work please! I've given your site out to several peers and even a Manager I'm coaching.

Deric- Thanks for the kind words!

Deric-

Thanks for the kind words! Let me ask - do you feel like we addressed your question regarding the intergration of the three managmenet behaviors? Would be VERY interested in where we got it right, from your perspective, and where you still may have questions. Would want to revisit it again... THIS IS CRITICAL. One on ones are the bucket where we talk about a coaching effort, the coaching model is the framework we use to structure the behavior change, and feedback is the way we encourage both the imporved performance and working through the model.

Please let us know.../

It's a privilege to serve you.

Mark

Hey Mark, Got a chance to listen to

Hey Mark,

Got a chance to listen to Coaching Revisited on my flight to Atlanta, GA tonight. Great content as always. Having just finished a correction plan for one of my folks, I could completely relate to HR's approach to the coaching process.

While I've downloaded the Manager Tools coaching form, I'm also going to look at using the framework we used for the improvement/correction plan process and modifying it for coaching use. I will likely refer to this during my next MML (with due credit to your podcast as well). Please feel free to extract any content from my show you might feel illustrates your point for use in an upcoming podcast of your own.

Keep "paying it forward"!

Kevin

Mark- Yes and no. I initially

Mark-

Yes and no. I initially developed a two model mind set on this. Feedback and One-On-One's are pretty easy to adapt once you get the swing of them. Those two items flowed together greatly (For me at least). When you add coaching its hard to shift that mind set from specific Feedback/1on1 setup on behavior to include individual development. I understand that feedback is also key for the coaching model.

I'm hung up on the need to separate coaching from the Feedback/1on1. Shouldn't I move the coaching to another similiar style meeting? When coaching a person I'd take the extra time to concentrate on goals, objectives, means to achieve, etc. That could take significant time unless I'm digging down into the weeds too much here?

Your response did give me the other angle/model that I didn't initially get. Thanks for the update. Does this help? Please keep up the great work!

Deric

Kevin- Glad the 'cast was helpful!

Kevin-

Glad the 'cast was helpful! Keep us posted on your coaching situation, and I will give a listen to your cast.

It's a privilege...

Mark

Deric- I think you have it.. we may

Deric-

I think you have it.. we may be using different language. Here are a couple more thoughts:

There is NOTHING wrong with a separate meeting for coaching. I think you can probably do it in a one on one, and MAYBE I would see you a little too in the weeds, MAYBE you are over-managing it... but I wouldn't swear to it. Do keep in mind that one of the great things about the coaching model is that you don't do it.. the employee does it. If you have to do too much of the work (this IS ABSOLUTELY LESS TRUE IN THE BEGINNING) it will become them doing what you want versus them developing themselves.

Remember as well that feedback is a HUGE part of coaching. If someone is moving forwards or backwards on a coaching effort, there should be feedback. On the other hand, if you know they're doing well (or poorly) on Tuesday, do NOT wait til your Thursday O3 to give them feedback. Feedback is best when it's immediate. You don't have to "cram" all coaching into your O3s, I just find it's a convenient place to always touch base about improvement efforts.

What prompted that comment was you saying, "separate the coaching from the Feedback/1on1." I see feedback as an always on, no big deal kind of thing... so wouldn't necessarily wait until an O3. But if you're clear about my take and it's working for you... GO GO GO.

This is not science... it's art (because, alas, other people are involved). ;-)

Bottom line: I think you're on the right track. Let me know if this helps. if I've made it worse, you may want to characterize one of your O3 feedback meetings for me by calling the listener line (easier than typing it all out): (206) 202-7376. Please note on your message if you don’t want us to use your audio feedback “on air”!

It's a privilege to serve you.

Mark

Ciao, I hear that you often have as a

Ciao,
I hear that you often have as a measure of success for a goal, something that is not depending from you (ex. a feedback to your boss from someone else, the result of a report from someone else ...). As far as I know from coaching, an objective has to be 'well formed' and this doesn't seem to me in that way. Can you help me in understanding better?
Grazie,
PierG

PierG- I THINK I understand what you

PierG-

I THINK I understand what you mean - see if this helps.

You're right in that feedback from someone else is not a classic/normal goal. One key to a goal is that it is MEASURABLE. That means that it is VERY EASY to tell whether you have gotten there or not. For instance, if your goal was to do a "good" job, that's NOT a good goal. You and I could disagree on what "good" is. On the other hand, if we change "good" to "no customer complaints" - as a WAY of clasifying "good" - thta IS a good goal.

So, it is possible that a goal would be based on someone else's input, if it were measurable. For instance, if a goal you had was, after a breifing, be complimented by a boss... The measurable part of that is just whether the compliment HAPPENED, not how "good" it was. Another example is "no customer complaints" - that doesn't rely on me, but it IS measurable...

I am not sure I got your question right, and would be happy to answer again if I did not. Maybe you could give me an example?

Thanks for listening!

Mark

Mark, let me explain a bit better.

Mark,
let me explain a bit better. Following your example of be complemented by a boss the question is: what if my boss is not giving compliments at all. I mean, is something that I cannot control, is something that doesn't rely completely on me. May be I could ask directly the boss to rate his satisfaction, so in someway he is oblidged to give me his feedback but ... again may be he doesn't want to give high rate couse he think I won't push anymore or something.
So, wouldn't be better to choose measures that depens on me?
Ciao,
PierG

PerG- Ah! Yes, you are COMPLETELY

PerG-

Ah! Yes, you are COMPLETELY right. In this situation, do NOT rely on your boss. The examples I gave were NOT good for your situation. DEFINITELY use measures that rely on YOU, in your case, even if that is not always required (if you had a different boss, you COULD do what I suggested.)

So: you're right.

And, time for a new boss. Life is too short.

It's a privilege to serve you.

Mark

You always talk about behaviour. I do

You always talk about behaviour. I do understand that behaviours are the key (as behaviours do reach golas) but: in the agility world we see that when things are in troubles you must rely on values.
Values are driving you when no 'standard' behaviour is known, when thing are changing so fast that's not easy to have feedback on behaviours.
Values are the basis, and principles help you to instantiate good behaviours.
Feedback?
Regards,
PierG

PierG- Well, now it gets

PierG-

Well, now it gets complicated. I have found that people do NOT like feedback regarding their values... and even if they were to change them, there would be no way to know without their behavior changing.

While discussions about motivations and internal intent are interesting, they don't get to the fundamental question we at manager tools are about: if I am a manager, what do I DO?

While I also get your point about things "changing so fast", I would argue that in order for you to determine my values, you'd have to watch my behaviors...

All the values in the world, without associated behaviors, don't deliver results...

Mark

Manager Tools - practical advice for

Manager Tools - practical advice for leaders

David Jones tipped me to the Manager Tools podcast. Every week, Michael Auzenne and Mark Horstman discuss techniques and practical tools that listeners can use to become more effective managers.
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