Managing Your Boss!
January 24th, 2006We had intended to cover Managing Upwards back in December, during our sessions on writing reviews. As it turned out, while we barely scratched the surface on how to do reviews, it nevertheless took us FOUR casts. We didn’t want to delay those casts, obviously, in light of their time sensitivity. So, we delayed this topic until now.
Managing Upwards for the most part boils down to Creating a Good Relationship with Your Boss. “Managing Your Boss” is somewhat of a misnomer in our world view; tell your boss that you’re managing them and see what kind of look you get. 
There is a lot to be said about politics in organizations, and whom you should know and whom you should stay in touch with. We’ve found that those topics don’t lend themselves easily to a simple cast if we want to give you actionable guidance. That IS what we’re about, after all.
So, we’re going to focus on some things you can do that will help you improve your relationship with your boss.
There are FIVE areas that we recommend you focus on in your relationship with your boss.
- Boss Goals
- Boss Communications
- Boss Schedule/Time Management
- Boss Work style
- Boss Relationships
Today, we give a brief example of what negative consequences can occur as a result of NOT paying attention to these. We then discuss Boss Goals and Boss Communications. We’ll cover the other three areas on our next podcast.
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January 25th, 2006 at 2:56 pm
Hi M&M your last podcast really hit the dark side of communication. We, as managers, are always worried in managing and communicating with people top-down. It is not easy to make the vice versa. Let me ask a triggy question: what if your boss is not communicating well or not communicating at all ? especially with others director where you don’t have “access” ? how to exit from this situation ? We cannot manage our bosses as you said but we need sell our image.
Looking forward to the 2nd part
January 26th, 2006 at 12:11 am
Bilbo-
Thanks for the kind words! You’ve asked a big question. Here are my thoughts. Take a look, tell me what I missed, what you’d like to know more about, and I’ll refine my thoughts for you.
First, I think it’s important I state for the record my thoughts about bosses in this area. I think most manager spending far too much time worrying about their bosses, and not enough time on their teams. I regret now titling our last cast managing your boss, even though we made it clear in the notes and cast that we don’t think that’s viable. We do think one ought to invest in the relationship, but managing up is a bit of a stretch. So, I don’t put much stock in changing boss’s behavior from beneath them.
That said, I think there are two ways you can influence a boss to change: asking, and setting an example.
By asking, I mean thinking carefully about what you want from your boss, thinking carefully about how HE will BENEFIT from the change, and then presenting it professionally as a recommended process change as opposed to “wanting him to change.” I’ve found that when I do that, if I include in my recommended process change what I am going to change about ME or what MY TEAM does, it doesn’t look so bad to the boss.
Second, by setting an example I mean simply doing a better job of managing than she does - by engaging in the behavior that you want her to do. Just that. Don’t take a survey, don’t rub her face in it… just behave the way you want her to. If she doesn’t get it, well, she doesn’t get it.
I admit that communication is a bit of a special case. In the case of a lack of communication, I’ve found it helpful to present to my boss a request from one of my subordinates to me with a comment like, “hey, I’d like to answer this but don’t know what to say. You were just in a meeting and this was discussed - can you help me out?” if I had a really good relationship (or a terribly bad one, but that’s just me, folks) with the boss, despite his inability to communicate, I’d copy the subordinate on the email. If I just had an okay relationship with the boss, I wouldn’t. (This all assumes email is his preferred way of communicating, which I’d guess is true here.)
If I worked for a boss for a while who had gotten numerous repeated requests from me for reasonable information that I knew was being shared to my peers by their bosses (so I knew he wasn’t withholding stuff for corporate reasons), I’d gather that data over time and in one of my longer one on ones, I’d share the data with him. I’d ask whether he was telling others who reported to him and not me (is this my problem?), or whether I should assume that that was his style. I’d give specific examples that I had gathered, tell him why I felt it was reasonable/more effective for me to know, and ask for him to share more. I’d ask him for guidance about how to ask him (when, what format, how to tell when he wouldn’t vs. couldn’t respond, how long to wait before assuming I wasn’t going to get an answer, and how many times I could ask without an answer before I just went away. I am being QUITE SERIOUS.
I would not, DESPITE what others might tell you, bring this up in a meeting with your boss and your peers (like a staff meeting.) Some people have asked me, “why not then? I know my peer feel the same!” My response is always the same… your peers DO feel the same… but that doesn’t mean they will ACT the same. You could be hung out to dry if your boss is in a bad mood and turns to them and asks if they agree and they all sort of waffle around in the middle. What’s more, if they DO agree… the boss will feel ambushed. NEVER in a meeting!
That said, here’s what I think will happen, in order of likelihood. Most likely: nothing will change. Less likely: small change for a while, then back to normal, maybe some residual joy. Possible but very unlikely: retribution.
Now, let’s say you’ve done everything right, and nothing changes. You do your best, but your boss continues to not share, and you believe your performance is suffering. It seems to me that you have three choices at that point.
One is to accept this failing and do your best. I would recommend this path if you really like the company you’re at, and the industry, and you think there are a lot of opportunities and your boss is well positioned (actually MUCH BETTER POSITIONED THAN ANYONE ELSE) to help you get where you’re going. I think this is unlikely… but it’s possible. And I know a lot of young people who think that switching companies every year is okay. It works fine until there is a downturn in the broader economy and they’re out looking, and all the recruiters discover this person has never stuck something out, never been through a down cycle with a firm. BAD SIGN.
The next is to keep your boss as happy as possible while working to get another job within your own company. Tell him nothing if you can, particularly if the likely other set of bad boss behaviors are present. Some companies have rules about this… what can I say? What I would tell you is that this is a time when your network comes in handy. If I really want to hire you in my department, and I know your situation, while you may not be able to work the system, it is likely I can. If you love your company and the opportunities there and feel that your boss can’t help you as well as others, this is the way to go.
The third option is to leave the company. It’s a completely reasonable option. PLEASE do not give your boss a piece of your mind as you walk out the door, either. If you must, in an exit interview, simply say IF PROBED, “well, there were times where I would have liked to have known more about certain things. But obviously I would never say anything derogatory about my boss or anyone else here.” And then, SAY NOTHING MORE about that. (Do not think you are helping your company by spilling the beans. There is risk here for you, yet little reward. Often exit interview data is so aggregated your comment is watered down to the point of noise.
And, when you go elsewhere, pay attention to how you are interviewed, and ask to speak to peers. Read between the lines. The boss who you’re working for now was that way when you went to work for him!
Hope this helps. it’s a privilege to serve you.
Mark
January 26th, 2006 at 4:01 pm
Hi Mark,
I came on here tonight to post a similarly themed question to Bilbo’s, mainly in respect of ideas on how to encourage uptake of the great ideas you guys have presented in your Podcasts.
I think you’ve pretty much answered all the questions I could ask in your lengthy reply, my own thoughts were very much along the lines of leading by example and hopefully being able to demonstrate the effectiveness of some of the tools you’ve taken the time to pass on. I’m already changing my behaviour around communication, and I’m seeing the benefits of doing that almost immediately.
I’m not strictly in a mangerial position (by title) but we all have things we manage on a daily basis, irrespective of our absolute level in an organization, so the opportunities do arise to set such examples. I’m also in the fortunate position of there being a lot of change around me at present and having some new, and I strongly believe more positive and professional, leadership at the very top, which I’m certain will help the process of changing behaviours below.
As further encouragement to Bilbo, I’ve managed to get myself re-positioned within the organization, away from the direct source of my frustrations and into a much more positive, collaborative and communicative environment, within my organization, so that can be a very real option, if you like your workplace and many of the people around you. I did it by ensuring that my skills and interests in another area were well known and capitalised on the opportunities that arose from some new leadership at the very top.
I’ll be thinking a lot about how best to further capitalise on the opportunities to arise, but at least for a start, I’ve told all the managers about this great Podcast and take the opportunity to talk about it, in the context of events that happen at work, when it’s appropriate. The next step is to start ‘doing’ mopre of it, as events allow
Thanks Mike and Mark for taking the time and effort to do this, it’s the single most useful source of relevant, practical information I’ve come across in relation to my work life.
Keep up the great work,
Andy.
January 26th, 2006 at 11:41 pm
Andy-
Thanks for the kind words, and for taking the time to craft such a thoughtful response. We particularly appreciate your encouragement to Bilbo - that’s what members of a community do!
As well, thank you for spreading the word about manager tools. We are humbled by our growth, thanks to listener members like you. Mike just told me we ranked in the top 5 of business podcasts on iTunes today. We feel great about this, and it’s because of word of mouth pioneers like you.
Thank you. We really mean it - it’s a privilege to serve you.
Mark
January 27th, 2006 at 11:00 am
Hi,
I like your show - picking up your july podcasts on one-on-one´s. I´m starting them in two weeks…..BUT I´ll do it in a two week time frame. I´m heading the corporate development department and sometimes I have the feeling that your tips ´don´t work as well on “highly skilled” workforce ?!
January 27th, 2006 at 11:11 am
maslaton,
Manager Tools was born out of an experience of using these techniques in a large (500+ folks) corporate development department. We’ve applied these techniques from very small businesses, all the way up to the CEO level of Fortune 100 companies and in our experience have yet to find where they don’t work.
I’m very interested in hearing more about what you think are obstacles to applying these principles in your organization.
Mike
January 27th, 2006 at 11:29 am
Maslaton-
Thanks for the feedback! We’re glad you like the show.
Sorry you’ve gotten the impression that you have. There’s no evidence of that in my years of coaching executives, and so it must be coming across subtly in how we deliver. That’s NOT our intent.
I’m right now coaching the CEO of a Fortune 100 technology company. He does one on ones weekly, with each of his directs who run $100 t0 $500 million businesses. These folks are brilliant and driven, and they meet once a week. They find that good management works just as well at the top.
Like Mike, I’d love to hear more about your situation. Bottom line, though, I’d recommend weekly. You can get by bi-weekly, but there’s a reduction in value, for various reasons.
It’s a privilege to serve you!
Mark
January 27th, 2006 at 2:34 pm
Guys, great show as always. I have to weigh in- managing your manager is one of the most important skills a person can possess. Sometimes managers spend so much time worrying about their direct reports they don’t take care of their own needs and wind up frustrated in their careers and stressed out on a daily basis.
Having survived 5 buy-outs in less than 8 years, I can tell you the only reason I still draw a paycheck is figuring out early in the game what this boss wants and how to give it to her- then passing that information on to the rest of your team so they know what drives you.
Keep up the good work
Wayne Turmel (The Cranky Middle Manager Show)
January 27th, 2006 at 6:54 pm
Wayne-
Thanks for the kind words! Some effort “worrying up” can pay big dividends.
And hey - coming back to Chicago in late Feb - will keep you posted.
It’s a privilege to serve you.
Mark
January 31st, 2006 at 9:09 pm
[…] In “Managing Your Boss - Part 1” and “Managing Your Boss - Part 2“, they’ve run through the five aspects of their process/methodology for establishing a good/better relationship with your boss, and understanding where they’re coming from. As I was listening, as with my earlier piece on their Development Challenge, I was taking notes, and these are represented in the images and link that follow. As I was working through the pieces, I was already thinking that I’d offer something up on my site, from the reverse of their perspective - for the folks that have, do or will work for me, so that they have an idea of some of the things I might want considered. Sure enough, sharing these concepts with your team is one of the summary points identifed in the podcast. […]
February 4th, 2006 at 9:38 pm
[…] Gary Slinger has created a nice map to illustrate the key takeaways from the “Managing your boss” session that Mark Horstman and Mike Auzenne hosted on their “Manager Tools” podcast. The map shows the five aspects of their process/methodology for establishing a good/better relationship with your boss: […]
February 5th, 2006 at 4:12 pm
[…] Mark und Mike, die Betreiber des Weblogs Manager Tools, haben dazu zwei sehr interessante Podcasts veröffentlicht: Managing Your Boss (Teil 1 und Teil 2, beide in Englisch). […]
February 17th, 2006 at 8:56 am
There is just so much stress around the fact that people need to manage their bosses. As Mark says, “I think most managers are spending far too much time worrying about their bosses, and not enough time on their teams.” I would add customers to that - ie, people need to spend time analysing their customers, not their bosses.
I read this fantastic article that looks at bosses/leadership from a systems (not individual) perspective - “why your boss is programmed to be a dictator” (download free at http://www.changethis.com/19.BossDictator). It provides the best analysis that I’ve ever seen on boss/subordinate behavior, and what we should do about it. Take the time to read it (it’s rather long), but it’s worth the effort.
February 17th, 2006 at 11:35 am
WOW! Thanks guys for this podcast (all of them actually). I’m new to management and I’m learning so much about you guys. Actually, I’m currently finishing up my MBA here in Montreal and I just wish some of the stuff you talk about would be teached in my courses. It would make sure the upcoming generation of managers would be more than rationnal and “by-the-book” leaders.
I’ll keep on listening, please keep on your good work. Your helping more than the current generation of managers but also the aspiring leaders of my generation (I’m 27).
Regards,
aL.
February 17th, 2006 at 3:09 pm
Alex-
Glad you like the show! Thanks for your kind words.
You’re right - MBA schools don’t teach the profoundly important skills and disciplines of leadership. They teach the technical skills of the job, and those are VERY important. But having lectured at many, and interviewed thousands of graduates thereof, I’ve seen the results. I love MBA students, but not because of their people leadership skills.
It’s a privilege to serve you,
Mark
(McGill?)
February 17th, 2006 at 3:25 pm
Actually not McGill. UQAM (Universite du Quebec a Montreal). They were the only one offering the MBA in management consulting.
waiting for the next show…. (and still thinking about the previous one),
alex.
February 17th, 2006 at 3:38 pm
Alex-
Ah. My bad. I don’t know how you’re getting our shows, but if you’re not using an RSS feed, you may not realize that the next show is up WAY early. It’s about feedback. I do recommend that you listen to our earlier shows about it first.
Have a great weekend!
Mark
February 23rd, 2007 at 8:44 am
Dear Mark,
I like you to assist me with your opinion of the following situation. I needyour feed back max.by tom. if possible.
last summer I have applied for a gm position in a big service, i was not selected due to political reason as explained . 2 monthes ago the chairman has called me and asked me to join the co as bdd and i discussed the details with the gm as we agreed that i will be the bdd(and within 1 month i will be appointed as deputy gm), plus bonus on news contracts. now , 2 months later the gm denied all things . I emailed the chairman & explained the situation , ( he is away, under medication for a while). the chairman stood by me and asked me to stay , and he called the gm ( according to him , the gm still waiting for my resignation, ( he feels im stronger than him , and better qualified than him . should i stay , how to deal with the situation ? the gm is self centered , does not believe in teamwork, and in time he tries to avoid my presence. what to do
June 4th, 2008 at 12:22 am
Dear Mark,
What is the most important relationship at work?
In this cast you it’s your relationship with your boss. Wouldn’t the answer depend on your role?
For example, I once knew an HR Manager who’s job was saved by an Engineering Director, not the HR Manager boss.
Keep up the great work!
Jon
June 5th, 2008 at 5:49 pm
Jon-
Boss. Regardless of your role, you only have one, and, more importantly, your boss IS, to YOU, the organization. That’s pretty important. Some would say with their directs…but it’s the number that makes the total more powerful than any other single relationship.
And just because there are moments when others make a difference doesn’t mean that in the main the boss relationship isn’t the most important. We think of rivers as flowing to the ocean, but they often meander in the opposite direction…while no one doubts where they’re headed.
Mark
June 9th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
“…it’s the number that makes the total more powerful…”, what do you mean Mark? Do you mean the more number of directs I have the more powerful my role vs. relationship? –Jon
June 9th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Jon-
You have more directs than you have bosses. While the totality of ALL of your relationships with ALL of your directs is more important than your single relationship with your boss, the relationship with your boss is more important than any ONE relationship with any ONE direct.
Sorry not clear!
Mark