Effective Meetings - There’s More!
August 16th, 2005Today we wrap-up our conversation on effective meetings, as well as answer some listener questions on meetings, one-on-ones, and feedback.
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September 2nd, 2005 at 9:28 am
Cheers for the reference to my blog post guys, your show is one of my favourites,
It’s the only one that I keep a copy of as I know they will be valuable now and in the future. As a software developer and team leader the knowledge that you share is very useful to me and that value will only increase as my managerial duties increase.
Keep up the good work,
Andrew Beacock
September 5th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
Andrew-
Thanks for the note! Mike and I have recently learned what your comments suggest that our casts are somewhat unique in that they have a long useful life. (We “discovered” it through notably higher bandwidth costs!) We are working towards creating a more obvious community of users, to let listeners/subscribers learn from each other. Thanks for the support, and we’ll do our best to keep earning it. Don’t hesitate to tell us what topics would be most helpful.
Mark
September 17th, 2005 at 10:52 am
Do you guys have any experience, and/or comment & thoughts on, the meeting method outlined in Lencioni’s “Death By Meeting”?
September 28th, 2005 at 12:46 am
Gary-
MIke just pointed out I may not have replied yet. Please accept my apologies. I have read Pat Lencioni’s book, Death by Meeting. I’ve read all of his books, and like them a great deal (yes, because I say a LOT of the same things). I have multiple copies of his books signed by him.
Death By Meeting, though, is my least favorite. I like the fact that the story suggests that meetings get better with rigor, with advance work, and clear purposes and follow up. And, I really struggled with the incorporation of “drama” in the meeting. I think that’s a reach for most orgs, and unlikely to work.
Can I categorically say I’ve tried it and it failed? Nope. Pat’s a smart guy , and he may be able to teach it in a way that makes it work. And as the old saying goes from the ARmy goes, “If it’s stupid but it works, it’s not stupid.” (Not saying the idea’s stupid, Pat - that’s just the quote.)
Simply put, meetings in Corporate America is SO messed up that I don’t think we need cleverness or creativity per se. We need a little bit of rigor, as we suggest. If you implement our recommendations, your meetings will be SO good (and SO much better than anyone else’s) that that’s all you’ll need to do.
Here’s a thought - get your metings in order with our get out of jail prescriptions, and then see if you can’t work the drama in as well. I’d like to see that.
Hope this helped!
Mark
October 3rd, 2005 at 8:00 pm
It does help, yes, thanks. I’ve just stepped down from managing people as a line manager, but I’d spent the last year with a fortnightly meeting, run along the Death By Meeting model; the group liked it, and it took a >2 hours deal back down to a tight hour. I struggled to find other meetings or scenarios where it might apply, however; tending back to some variant of your model. So, I’ll keep it in the back of my mind as a potential tool (weapon?), but not as a regular method. As an unscientific data point - my US team members “took” to it, quite readily. My UK ones didn’t.
Two things I’m working on right now that are relevant - “no agenda = no meeting”; I’m trying to be flexible and allow for “Discussions” to be scheduled, the distinction being that in a discussion, I’m just offering my opinion and so forth. If there’s an expectation that I might take away action points, then I want an agenda.
The other thing, which I’m not surprisingly getting pushback on, is to use what I’m jokingly calling psychiatrists hours - 50 minutes. By that, I mean I’ll take a 9;00-9:50 meeting, rather than a 9:00-10:00 one, to allow a gap between the inevitable next meeting at 10:00. Have to see how it goes!
Welcome back - looking forward to the next ‘cast.
Regards,
Gary
October 3rd, 2005 at 8:38 pm
Gary-
I’ve gotten enough positive comments about Death By Meeting that I’m going to re-look it. I told a friend of mine yesterday that I thought it was a great meeting 2.0 concept, but meetings were just so, so, SO bad in larger orgs that I couldn’t recommend it. When I hear stories of success, though, I start thinking about helping people take a step up AFTER they get the basics down.
I agree on psychiatrist’s hours. Actually, though, my choice is 45 minute meetings starting at the quarter hour. They’re easier to remember, it allows OTHERS’ late-running meetings some grace, and since they don’t start theirs on time anyway, they won’t mind my attendees coming late.
I agree about “discussions”. What I do is say, “hey, you got 15 minutes. More than that, we make it a a meeting and I want an agenda.” I LIKE batting ideas around, but I ask for this little bit of rigor.
Thanks for the comments. We like thinking listeners!!!
January 7th, 2006 at 1:01 pm
I have just started listening to the Podcast and finding it very useful. Just going through the archive right now!
Regarding this topic, if you are leading a meeting where there is no obvious candidate to take minutes and everyone will be contributing throughout, is recording the meeting and reviewing later to take minutes an alternative?
Many thanks
Michael
January 7th, 2006 at 5:23 pm
Michael-
Yes, it’s an alternative. But in our experience, not a very good one, because minutes that are delayed often get left undone. As well, we’ve found that sitting through a meeting’s recording is deadly boring.
It may be that your definition of minutes is different than our definition of notes. I’ve been in plenty of meetings where I contributed throughout and also took notes. Notes are not detailed minutes of who said what, or even of every topic discussed. Notes are just key points on paper - reporting what was decided, accomplished, agreed to, etc. They’re not a diary of the flow that led to a decision, but rather just the decision itself.
Hope this helps. Bottom line, you can do it that way; we’ve just found it harder than it seems. Just pin the duty on someone and know the notes won’t be quite as good that time. The meeting is about communicating results and responsibilities and deciding on things, not about creating minutes.
Mark
January 9th, 2006 at 2:00 am
I agree. I work in a call center environment where communication is critical and meeting minutes are just as critical. Also, delaying them steals precious time from side meetings that need to occur due to actions that were assigned.
January 10th, 2006 at 4:34 pm
Mike-
Thanks for the backup!
It’s a privilege to serve you.
Mark
January 14th, 2006 at 1:40 pm
Mark,
Many thanks for your advice.
I must agree that wading through 2hrs30 of conversation trying to pick out the salient points (as I had to with my last recorded meeting) was extremely tedious and very inefficient.
I think there may actually be some rare occaisions where it is useful to have a record of the points made in a discussion leading up to decisions, especialy if there is a lot of negotiating happening in the meeting and there are few firm outcomes, but I agree, again, that in the course of most meetings, it is really the outcomes and commitments to action that need to be documented.
Back to paper and pen I think!
Thanks again and keep up the excellent work.
Michael
February 21st, 2006 at 10:49 pm
Started catching your podcast a few months ago. I really enjoy your programs.
February 21st, 2006 at 10:59 pm
Robert-
Thanks for the kind words! Glad you like the show.
It’s a privilege to serve you.
Mark
May 4th, 2006 at 3:43 pm
I am a pastor serving in a church with many upwardly mobile professionals. One of our leaders recently turned me on to your show. I’ve been making my way through the first sessions and find that I listen to every show several times because they are so packed with helpful information.
We’ve moved to 1×1’s with my staff and it’s working great! They feel more listened to and it’s cut down the wasted time we used to spend running back and forth to each others’ offices with ideas tremendously.
HOWEVER, best yet—these ideas for meetings were terrific! We began yesterday with our weekly staff meeting. Only 3 people were there on time, but we started anyway. Our Ad Min and I published an agenda, using your template and we used the Parking Lot idea, because we have found that useful in classes that we teach. Believe it or not, our meeting not only ended early. We were over 1/2 hour early!
Thanks guys and keep up those podcasts. Your ideas are useful in ways that do not apply to business, but to churches like ours. I’ve even found some of your ideas helpful in daily living.
Christine Deaner-Rogers
May 4th, 2006 at 9:03 pm
Christine-
I am THRILLED to hear that our work is helping YOU in YOUR work! If Fortune Magazine can profile Rick Warren, then we oughta be able to provide value to organizations like yours. The mission may be different (and orders of magnitude more important), but people’s behavior is still pretty much the same, and effective management is the same.
Just think: Mike and I *could* say to folks, “hey, if you use this stuff, all your meetings will end half an hour early.” THAT would guarantee our (and their) success.
It really IS a privilege to serve you.
Mark
June 20th, 2006 at 4:56 pm
Hi. Thanks so much for this invaluable resource.
I am a new manager and trying to get a handle on balancing the one-on-one meetings, the all team meetings, and “managing by walking around”.
If the one-on-ones are held weekly, how often should the all team meetings be held? Where does the walking around fit in? And, when is all this intearction too much for the staff?
Finally, any resources/links for new managers you can recommend would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks a million!
Victoria
June 21st, 2006 at 2:19 am
Victoria-
Thanks for the kind words.
Staff meetings are weekly also. Weekly is a sweet spot for human beings, in terms of our abilities to think and envision the future. If things happen less often than that, they go on a mental or virtual back burner, and only surface when a deadline draws them forward.
MBWA is really only “necessary” as a “technique” when you’re not doing these other things. I’m certainly not against wandering around and asking how things are going, and relying on serendipity… but I prefer systemic approaches.
This interaction is only too much versus the old system. If I have a choice of over- or under-communication, I go with over-.
We would love to make more recommendations… but don’t find any that have met our standards beyond the book list…
Thanks for the post, glad you’re a member!
Mark
March 14th, 2007 at 5:14 pm
I am a brand new listener to your podcasts. My first podcast was on effective meetings theres more. I am thoroughly satisfied with the use of my time listening to this podcast. Tomorrow will be my first test. I am a safety manager at a large newsprint manufacturer and we have a Central Safety Committee meeting tomorrow. I am always looking for ways of being more efficient and still effective in my job. Since I have the top management on this committee there is a real concern of wasting their time. We are changing our agenda format to model your proposed format and will see how well we are doing at the end of the meeting.
I have tried to register but have not received and email. Should I be concerned or is there a time lapse expected?
Have a Safe Day,
Gary L McGuire
March 15th, 2007 at 1:24 pm
Gary,
Sorry for the delay! I sent you a private email with the details. But bottom line, you should be good to go now.
Mike